HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - Minutes - City Council - Meeting Date: 10/6/2015 City of Glendale
5850 West Glendale Avenue
Glendale, AZ 85301
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GLEN 111
Meeting Minutes - Final
Tuesday, October 6, 2015
1:30 PM
Workshop
Council Chambers - Room B3
City Council Workshop
Mayor Jerry Weiers
Vice Mayor Ian Hugh
Councilmember Jamie Aldama
Councilmember Samuel Chavira
Councilmember Gary Sherwood
Councilmember Lauren Tolmachoff
Councilmember Bart Turner
City Council Workshop Meeting Minutes-Final October 6,2015
CALL TO ORDER
Rollcall
Present 6- Vice Mayor Ian Hugh, Councilmember Jamie Aldama, Councilmember Samuel
Chavira, Councilmember Gary Sherwood, Councilmember Lauren Tolmachoff, and
Councilmember Bart Turner
Absent 1 - Mayor Jerry Weiers
Also present were Richard Bowers, Acting City Manager; Jennifer Campbell, Assistant
City Manager; Michael Bailey, City Attorney; and Pamela Hanna, City Clerk.
WORKSHOP SESSION
1. 15-679 COUNCIL ITEM OF SPECIAL INTEREST: UPDATE ON THE
COMMUNITY CONVERSATIONS FINAL REPORT RELATED TO A
POSSIBLE ANTI-DISCRIMINATION ORDINANCE
Staff Contact: Jennifer Campbell, Assistant City Manager
Guest Presenter: Ms. Karen Kurtz, Facilitator
Ms. Campbell said the final report on the information collected during four community
conversations regarding a possible anti-discrimination ordinance will be presented by
Karen Kurtz, the facilitator.
Ms. Kurtz first explained the process used to collect information and comments during
the community conversations on anti-discrimination. As Council directed in a prior
workshop, she and City staff held 4 public input sessions on the need for an
anti-discrimination ordinance using certain ground rules and tools. Ms. Kurtz said June
10th was the business meeting, and there were community meetings held on June 18th,
July 25th and July 30th. In addition, the public was invited to submit additional comment
sheets, voicemail and email comments. All the data was combined and then reviewed by
each facilitator to make sure it reflected the content and spirit of the conversations held.
Ms. Kurtz explained this is qualitative and anecdotal data of perceptions and
experiences, and is not a statistically significant representation of the community. She
also explained the dot votes system. Ms. Kurtz explained how participants in the
community conversation sessions were invited to fill out a "demographics" sheet, which
helped identify if they were Glendale residents, business owners or interested parties.
She said in the conversation part of the discussion, there were 131 unduplicated
participants, 94 were residents and business owners and 35 were interested parties. She
said some participants attended more than one meeting, but they were only counted
once. She said the numbers do not add up to 131 because she took that information
from the demographic surveys that participants filled out and two people did not turn in
their surveys. She said the interested parties varied - some were employed or went to
church in Glendale, some were former residents or business owners, and some had
friends and family that live in Glendale. She said a number of participants shopped or
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attended events in Glendale. Ms. Kurtz said staff from other cities also attended to
observe the process and others were from advocacy organizations. She said of the 131
participants, 7 attended more than one meeting.
In turning to the content of the community input sessions, Ms. Kurtz said they first asked
if Glendale was a welcoming and inclusive community. Some comments received said
Glendale is a diverse and inclusive community, but other commenters stated Glendale
has improved, but has more work to do to be more diverse and inclusive. She said there
were comments about segregation based on where you lived, north versus south
Glendale as well as historical and newer sections of the city.
Ms. Kurtz said the participants were next asked what makes it easy or difficult to be in
your group. Comments included: community diversity, personal qualities such as
being compassionate and open-minded, connection and support, time heals, being (or
appearing to be) in dominant culture, laws and policies that protect and provide recourse
as well as other factors. Ms. Kurtz said comments about what makes it difficult to be in
your group ranged from not having protection, not knowing each other, lack of
compassion, the community did not highlight its diversity, people not in a diverse group
do not understand what it feels like to be in that circumstance and fear of the unknown.
The participants were then asked if there was discrimination in Glendale. Responses
included: need data to decide, demographic differences mean different awareness of
different treatment, a melting pot, not identity groups, already protected by law, a new law
equals special rights, and there were examples from those who have experienced
differential treatment.
Participants were asked to discuss what they perceived as the benefits of having a city
ordinance. The benefits included: protection, recourse and inclusion, business attraction
and a positive image for and pride in the city. Ms. Kurtz said there was a lot of interest in
working with businesses that do demonstrate inclusion. Participants said some of the
perceived adverse impacts of an ordinance included infringements on religious freedom,
the cost of enforcement, concern about potential lawsuits, and other concerns. She said
many comments about religious freedom came by email and it offered an opportunity to
see where those commenters were coming from in their thought process. Other
concerns included were concerns about transgender persons using restrooms appropriate
to their identified gender.
Ms. Kurtz said participants were asked to generate a list of ideas they thought might be
effective to address issues of unequal treatment or discrimination in the community. The
dot votes for residents and business owners showed over 21% wanted to adopt an
• ordinance, and 1.7% wanted to adopt an ordinance with exclusions. Participants who did
not want an ordinance came in at just over 15%. Thirteen percent of the participants said
they believed there was no discrimination problem in Glendale. Education programs for
cultural diversity and anti-discrimination issues received 12.5% of the votes and all other
ideas listed as approaches to address diversity and discrimination received less than 5%
of the votes cast. Dot votes from the 114 interested parties who attended the meetings
showed 54% wanted to adopt an ordinance, 2.6% wanted to adopt an ordinance with
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exclusions, 4.4% wanted no ordinance, less than 1% said there was no discrimination
problem. Thirteen point two (13.2)% of interested party participants said education
programs for cultural diversity would help address discrimination issues, while 5.3% of
the interested party participants wanted to promote diversity more. All other ideas from
interested parties had less than 5%of the votes.
Ms. Kurtz said participants had varying levels of awareness and experiences with
differential treatment, and there was no consensus among participants whether Glendale
needs an anti-discrimination ordinance because there were participants on both sides of
the issue.
Councilmember Turner asked Ms. Kurtz if she had done this type of study before.
Ms. Kurtz said she had facilitated this process in Mesa.
Councilmember Turner asked if Ms. Kurtz has some expertise in this.
Ms. Kurtz said she had worked with the diversity issue quite a bit in Mesa since 2000,
when their diversity office first opened.
Councilmember Turner asked Ms. Kurtz if she had a sense of how Glendale compares to
other communities.
Ms. Kurtz said she didn't see anything in people's comments that was unusual. Some of
the comments received on both sides of the issue were the same comments she
received in Mesa.
Councilmember Sherwood asked what percent of comments were not received as part of
the four sessions that were held.
Ms. Kurtz said 36 additional comment sheets came from people who attended the
meetings. They also received 7 voicemails and 25 emails. She said about 4 or 5 emails
were from people that had attended the meeting. She said about 158 people contributed
to the comments.
Councilmember Sherwood said the people submitting outside comments did not have the
ability to look at the presentations first. He said there was varying degrees of participant's
awareness on this issue, and he hoped attendees were enlightened after the
presentations.
Ms. Kurtz said an evaluation was passed out after the community conversations. About
108 of the evaluations were returned. Seventy-one percent of the participants said they
did learn new things as a result of their participation. Ninety-two percent said they
understood others' perspectives better, even when they disagreed with them, and 50%
said the conversation made them more curious about others. Ms. Kurtz stated that
many of the participants told her they learned something new just by sitting and having a
conversation with someone they didn't know who has had different experiences.
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Councilmember Chavira said he is familiar with Ms. Kurtz's work in Mesa. He thanked
staff for their involvement with this report. He said the report was comprehensive,
unbiased and it captured the honesty of participants'remarks.
Councilmember Tolmachoff said she attended one of the community meetings. She said
it was important to have groups of people sit down, have a conversation and get to know
one another. She said promoting diversity, having a community dialogue and education
is a big step forward. The community wanted more education and opportunities to talk to
their neighbors. She said she had a meeting in her district about this issue and
information provided at her meeting said most of the hate crimes in Glendale were due to
race, religion and ethnicity. She said those are already protected classes and wasn't
sure if laws would change people's minds. She said she wasn't sure if they had enough
information right now to decide if an ordinance was necessary. She said knowledge and
education changes people's minds.
Vice Mayor Hugh said he was not sure what an ordinance would look like, and passing
an ordinance is not going to give someone good manners. He asked if Ms. Kurtz and the
staff were able to see what participants wanted from their exercise.
Ms. Kurtz said for those who were interested in the ordinance, it wasn't going to change
people's minds, but it will give those people who experience differential treatment some
kind of recourse to take action. She said an organization can write down its values, but
the real values of the organization come out when someone violates those values. If
nothing happens, it sends a very strong message. People who spoke in favor of this
issue were concerned about having recourse or somewhere to go if something did
happen.
Councilmember Tolmachoff said the Council does not have any data because they don't
have any place to direct people if discrimination occurs. She spoke about
Councilmember Aldama's previous suggestion about establishing a commission on
diversity. She said the Council might need the data to find out before moving forward on
this issue. She said she struggled to find the starting place on this issue, but said the
starting place wasn't the ordinance. She said they need to get people to know one
another so they realize we all want the same things. She said if the city had a
commission,they would be part of this process already.
Councilmember Sherwood said there isn't a place to collect the data, so it is important to
have a Human Relations Commission. He said there should also be protection to give
recourse to people who come to the commission with an issue. He said he didn't think
there was much of a cost to set this up. He said an opening and welcoming community
is very important. He said there are several cities in Arizona that score 100 on the
Human Rights Campaign's Municipal Equality Index. He said that would be a great tool
for the city to get companies to relocate to Glendale. He said they are talking about
doing the right thing for the community. He said one person experiencing discrimination
is too much. He thought the public involvement in the community meetings was great,
but he would like staff put an ordinance together to see what it would look like. He also
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said they also needed to look at what exclusions might be added to an ordinance, if
necessary. He said this is a great economic development tool, as well as just doing the
right thing. He said the open and welcoming community comes up every time he is
involved in a panel discussion.
Councilmember Chavira said the starting point is behind us just because we are having
this dialogue today. He said with the report that was presented today, the city now has
a template for respect. He said he likes the direction the city is going with this.
Councilmember Aldama said those individuals who have a different sexual orientation
never have an opportunity to turn to anyone and having an ordinance in place could give
someone in that situation a place to turn. He is favor of looking at a draft ordinance and
comparing it to other cities that have similar ordinances.
Councilmember Tolmachoff clarified by saying the no data was part of the presentation.
She said the majority of hate crimes being reported by protected classes and the laws
are not making a difference. She said she doesn't believe laws change people's minds,
she thinks education and a change in culture changes people's minds. She asked if a
commission could enforce an ordinance.
Mr. Bailey said a commission would lack the authority to enforce an ordinance unless the
authority was granted to them. He said it would depend on what that authority would be,
noting that Council cannot delegate certain authority to the commission.
Councilmember Aldama said many of the comments talked about not being inclusive. He
asked staff what the city specifically does to be inclusive.
Ms. Campbell said Mr. Brown is working on diversity issues, as directed in a prior
Council workshop. There has been diversity training in the city, but she said staff can
research what other diversity-related actions are being taken by the city and bring an
answer back to Council.
Councilmember Aldama said he did not ask the question to demonstrate there is a lack
of diversity, but to demonstrate that some of the comments are right on the money. He
said the city has a long way to go to promote and adopt inclusiveness. He said he had
no problem looking at a draft ordinance.
Vice Mayor Hugh said he would like to see examples of ordinances that have been
adopted by the other Arizona cities, and he asked what the next step would be.
Ms. Campbell said Phoenix, Tempe, Flagstaff, and Tucson have ordinances and that a
description of these ordinances has already been provided to Council in previous
workshops. She also offered to provide copies of the full text of those ordinances to
Council. She said Mesa is dealing with this issue right now and also has a Human
Relations Commission that has been provided recommendations as a result of its own
study. One of those recommendations was to look at adopting an ordinance. She
informed Council that Scottsdale, like Glendale, signed a One Community's Unity Pledge
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and is reconsidering moving forward with an anti-discrimination ordinance. Ms. Campbell
understands the Scottsdale City Council has tasked its City staff with researching what
ordinances in other cities look like and has asked staff to bring that information before the
Scottsdale Council so they can determine if they will do community outreach. Ms.
Campbell further reminded Council that they do have a comparison chart showing the
attributes and differences of each anti-discrimination ordinance has aleardy been provided
to them. She lastly reminded Council that the City of Tempe took adopted both an
ordinance and city charter amendment so that their citizens voted on it.
Vice Mayor Hugh said he would like to see copies of the ordinances. He wanted to know
what acts an ordinance would prohibit and asked what the next step is if someone is in
violation of an ordinance.
Ms. Campbell said this ordinance would protect classes that were not currently protected
in employment, public housing, and different accommodations. She explained that is
what the ordinances do in the other cities.
Councilmember Aldama said they have already started this process, and asked where
are they going to end? He said this Council can't really make a decision to move forward
until they see the ordinances from other cities and then draft an ordinance for further
review.
Councilmember Sherwood said this non-discrimination requirement was put on all the
suppliers and vendors back in January. He said he has questions about enforcement and
how a complaint is handled.
Ms. Mangone said the starting point for enforcement under all the ordinances in Arizona
cities was mediation. The complainant and respondent would meet through the diversity
office or human relationscommission, and mediation would be provided by the city at no
cost to the participants. She said she knows of few examples where cities have had to
go beyond the mediation step in enforcing their ordinances. She explained the next step
in the enforcement process would depend on how the ordinance was written, and there
were variations between the cities that already have ordinances. Ms. Mangone explained
that the ultimate penalty for a violation might be a civil penalty or fine, which were similar
to misdemeanor penalties under the City Code and that the City of Phoenix was the only
city that considered these violations criminal violations.
Councilmember Sherwood asked if the commissions were in cities that already had an
ordinance.
Ms. Mangone said they were. She further explained that other cities also have Human
Rights or Human Relations Commissions, but may not have an ordinance to enforce or a
role to play in the process.
Councilmember Sherwood said the education component comes in during the mediation
process.
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Ms. Mangone said that was correct.
Councilmember Sherwood said having an ordinance in place may have deferred some
actions and the cities that do not have ordinances simply mediate their complaints.
Ms. Mangone said it was unclear whether mediations occurred prior to filing of complaints
in Phoenix, and said the City may have brought the parties together for mediation even
before a formal complaint was filed with the Human Relations Commission.
Vice Mayor Hugh asked if there was a consensus to move forward to review ordinances
from other cities and review an ordinance for Glendale.
Councilmember Aldama asked if that included drafting an ordinance.
Vice Mayor Hugh said it could include directing staff to draft an ordinance.
Councilmember Aldama said he would like Vice Mayor Hugh to ask for consensus to not
only get the ordinances adopted by other cities, but to ask staff to return with a draft
ordinance that Council could review.
Vice Mayor Hugh asked if the City Attorney had any direction.
Mr. Bailey said he wanted the Council to understand they would not receive an ordinance
in final form and that Council would have an opportunity to make some decisions prior to
considering an ordinance for adoption. He recommended this item came back to a future
workshop.
There was City Council consensus to proceed, and Council directed staff to prepare a
draft ordinance for Council review and discussion at a subsequent workshop.
2. 15-660 REPORT ON COMPREHENSIVE PROCUREMENT POLICY
Staff Contact and Presenter: Vicki Rios, Interim Director, Finance and
Technology
Staff Presenter: Tim Burkeen, Purchasing and Materials Manager
Ms. Rios said they were going to talk about the comprehensive Procurement Policy. She
provided a history of a prior presentation that was presented in 2014. She said the next
steps were to clarify the City Code and Directives by clearing up inconsistencies, clearly
define exceptions and administrative processes, and clearly define the differences
between awards, purchases and contracts. She said they were also going to centralize
management of the procurement process and ensure that all staff understands
procurement policies.
Ms. Rios said a comprehensive Procurement Policy has been developed, the Materials
Management team is fully staffed and procurement training is underway. The
procurement policy combines finance administrative policies for check requests,
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signature authority, petty cash, emergency purchases, minority/women owned
businesses, professional services, sole source procurements, and protest and hearings
procedures.
Mr. Burkeen discussed the significant changes to the Procurement Policy. He said the
policy contains clarification on how to calculate the value of a procurement and he said
the value determines which procurement method is needed. He explained that the value
of procurement is by type of supply or service or the value of procurement can be by
department. Mr. Burkeen said Materials Management will review spending annually and
he explained if departments are buying similar items or using or using the same vendor, a
bid or RFP may be warranted in the future.
Councilmember Sherwood asked if the$30 and$20 example used was by fiscal year.
Mr. Burkeen said that would be for the total procurement.
Councilmember Sherwood continued with additional questions about purchases for
different fiscal years.
Mr. Burkeen said the example he used was intended to be a single instance, and he said
if the total is going to be more than$50,000, that is a formal procurement.
Ms. Rios said it would be over the life of the contract. Each one is going to be separate
for purposes of looking at the policy. She said procurements would be treated separately
for the purposes of an audit, but once a spending pattern is identified, Materials
Management might suggest it would be appropriate in the future to use a formal bid
process.
Mr. Burkeen went on to say sections were added to the policy regarding procurement
ethics, anti-discrimination expectations,dollar limits for procurements are consistent with
signature authority, and a section on cooperative purchasing was added. He said no City
Code changes are required and these policies will be updated as necessary in the future.
Ms. Rios said this is an Administrative Policy which does not require Council approval,
and it will be updated in the future as necessary.
Mr. Burkeen said the Materials Management Department is now fully staffed with three
contract analysts and a management aide. The department publishes a monthly
newsletter. He said procurement training starts on October 7th and will be conducted
twice a year. This training also includes pro-card training.
Councilmember Sherwood asked when the city would be getting a contract administrator.
He said he knows the budget did not permit it, but knows it needs to happen.
Mr. Bailey said with the Materials Management Department being fully staffed, many
challenges have been addressed. He said the magnitude of the contract administrator
position has grown and it is a discussion Council will need to have. He said that position
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may be responsible for the larger deals the city is involved in.
Councilmember Tolmachoff asked who gets the monthly newsletter.
Mr. Burkeen said they started sending it to department buyers and pro-card holders, but
they would be happy to send it to Council as well.
Ms. Rios said the newsletter is also available on the Materials Management intranet
website.
Councilmember Aldama asked about the city's controls on petty cash.
Ms: Rios said there was a petty cash policy and it is for purchases under$150. She
explained there is dual custody controls in place and cash counts of the petty cash. She
said the policy has not been revised significantly, but was added to this group of policies.
She said they also clarified the petty cash purchasing rules.
Councilmember Aldama said he wanted more information about employees handling cash
and multiple controls.
Ms. Rios said those policies are already in place for all types of purchases, not just for
petty cash. She explained there are multiple levels of control for purchases and those
are routinely monitored by auditors for compliance.
Councilmember Aldama wanted to make sure those watching knew those controls were
in place.
Councilmember Turner said the standardization of policies brought transparency to the
process.
3. 15-662 EMERGENCY VEHICLE PREEMPTION FEDERAL FUNDING
APPLICATION
Staff Contact: Jack Friedline, Director, Public Works
Staff Presenter: Debbie Albert, Transportation Engineer
Ms.Albert said this item concerns an opportunity for capital funding for emergency
vehicle preemption and she wanted Council guidance about the funding application. She
explained emergency vehicle preemption is a system where the emergency vehicle
communicates with the traffic signals to request a green light to proceed through the
intersection without having to stop. She explained the various ways these transmissions
can occur, including line of sight communication or radio signal transmission. She said
the equipment currently in use at several intersections in the city is obsolete and is no
longer supported. The cost to install this technology is approximately$711,000,which
includes design, installation and construction and ADOT fees. The exact locations would
be determined during the design process. Ongoing operating costs are about$60,000
annually.
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Ms.Albert said MAG requested applications for federal Congestion Mitigation and Air
Quality Funding and she said funding is available in federal fiscal years 2018 and 2019.
MAG has capped each project request at$400,000;therefore about$300,000 in city
funds would be needed for this project. She said federal funds do have a 5.7%local
match for construction and implementation. Project presentations are scheduled for
October 7th and project rankings are due out on October 26th. She said if Council
decided not to move forward with this project due to funding considerations,this would be
a good time to pull the project from consideration.
Ms.Albert said federal funding requirements require the city to follow all Federal Highway
Administration requirements for design and construction.An intergovernmental agreement
is needed,which specifies that the city will cover all costs above the federal funding
allocation and the city is required to commit to ongoing maintenance of the project. It is
anticipated the local match and ongoing maintenance funding would come out of the
General Fund since this project is used for emergency services.
Councilmember Chavira said he is in favor of reducing call times which improves our
residents'way of live.
Councilmember Sherwood asked how many locations the city had with this technology.
Ms.Albert said she did not know the exact number, but they have used existing
equipment to keep the Bell Road corridor up and running.
Councilmember Sherwood asked about the useful life of this technology.
Ms.Albert said she would need to research that question and get back to Council with an
answer. She said with other cities using this technology, there is more incentive from the
company to continue to support this equipment.
Councilmember Sherwood said this project is needed and asked if it is only on fire
equipment.
Ms.Albert said it is on fire engines and some ambulances.
Councilmember Sherwood asked if there had been discussion to put this technology on
police vehicles.
Ms.Albert said they are beginning discussions with the Police Department about this,
but this funding is just for fire vehicles.
Councilmember Aldama said this is to decrease call times and creates a safer
intersection. He asked what criteria are used to determine the intersections that get
these devices.
Ms.Albert said they are looking primarily at arterial intersections with a lot of cross
traffic.
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Councilmember Aldama asked if crash data was used in making a determination about
the intersections.
Ms.Albert said crash data was also used in the decision-making process.
Councilmember Aldama said he wanted to make sure those who are watching
understand how those decisions are made.
Ms.Albert said the devices would be put in various intersections across the entire city
and not just in one area.
Councilmember Tolmachoff asked if the projected cost was for the GPS units. She said
it sounded like they would work better.
Ms.Albert said they had to choose one of the devices in order to create an estimate and
they did use the GPS system, but due to federal funding requirements,they will have to
go through an approval process to determine which device would work better for the city.
Councilmember Tolmachoff asked if the devices work on a diagonal intersection,such as
Grand Avenue.
Ms.Albert said that is the idea behind the GPS system and there a lot of flexibility with
that system. She said the Grand Avenue intersections are maintained by ADOT, and the
city would have to get ADOT permission to put the devices at those intersections.
Councilmember Tolmachoff asked if insurance premiums would be reduced if the city has
these devices.
Ms.Albert said that has not been reported in any of the transportation studies she has
read.
Councilmember Chavira said he would like to adopt Councilmember Tolmachoffs idea
and look into the discounts on insurance.
Councilmember Turner said it sounded like this was a great idea and safer for citizens
and public safety personnel. He said he would like some confirmation from the Police
and Fire Chiefs that this is solid technology. He said he saw the Chiefs nodding their
heads. He asked how the city will fund this and whether or not the city should stay in the
MAG funding process. He asked if the city would consider applying for a grant for the
city portion of the funding from the Indian Gaming Grant funding. He said this is an
important project.
Councilmember Chavira agreed with Councilmember Turner. He said this technology
provides a buffer so the intersections are clear for the Public Safety vehicles to enter the
intersections safely.
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Vice Mayor Hugh said there was consensus to move this item forward.
CITY MANAGER'S REPORT
Acting City Manager Bowers had nothing to report.
CITY ATTORNEYS REPORT
City Attorney Bailey had nothing to report but reminded Council there was an Executive
Session scheduled for immediately following the workshop.
COUNCIL ITEMS OF SPECIAL INTEREST
Councilmember Chavira would like to invite members of the 2015 Special Olympics at the
beginning of the next City Council meeting.
Councilmember Tolmachoff wanted staff to investigate high speed fiber optic internet as a
city utility. She said the cost is not prohibitive and it might enhance the quality of life for
citizens. She noted this is an important economic development resource.Also, she
would like to consider keeping the members of the Downtown Community Working Group
active so they can be a resource for the light rail decision making process.
Vice Mayor Hugh said in March,he requested information on the status of Southwest
Ambulance's debt to the city. Now, he believes it is time for the city find out through an
RFQ what ambulance services are available to take care of the citizens.
MOTION TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION
Councilmember Turner moved,seconded by Councilmember Chavira,to enter
into Executive Session, The motion carried by the following vote:
Aye: 6- Vice Mayor Hugh, Councilmember Aldama, Councilmember Chavira,
Councilmember Sherwood, Councilmember Tolmachoff, and Councilmember Turner
Absent: 1 - Mayor Weiers
EXECUTIVE SESSION
The City Council moved into Executive Session at 3:07 p.m.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 3:50 p.m.
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